Tue. Mar 28th, 2023

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UPDATE: Barely over 20 Occupy protesters marched at the Santa Ana Art Walk on Saturday, according to the OC Weekly.  Obviously this is a very small movement…no doubt our Santa Ana City Council will take that into account on Monday night.

“Santa Ana’s City Council on Monday will undertake a discussion of the city’s no-camping ordinances in response to the Occupy OC movement’s wish to establish a long-term presence in the Civic Center,” according to the O.C. Register.

Santa Ana Council Members David Benavides and Michele Martinez put the 85B item on the agenda – forcing the rest of the City Council to consider allowing the Occupy movement to camp out overnight in Downtown Santa Ana.

Is this a good idea?  Well, consider what has happened in other communities that have allowed their city centers to be overrun at night by Occupy protesters:

  • After Los Angeles County health inspectors expressed worries about the cleanliness of the camp, Los Angeles Mayor Anthony Villaraigosa and city officials plan to relocate the demonstration. Not only has sanitation been an issue but the there are also concerns about the conditions of the lawn and trees, according to the LA Times.
  • Portland officials have issued a warning to the protesters of Occupy Portland after a police officer was shoved against a bus during an unruly march this week, and the police chief ordered his department to have riot gear at the ready. (Washington Post)
  • Dallas police have arrested a man who allegedly sexually assaulted a minor at the Occupy Dallas campsite downtown.  Richard Armstrong, 24, was charged with sexual assault of child and failure to register as a sex offender.  (WFAA TV)
  • “We’re getting addicts and drunks down here, and it’s a ratio that’s hard to deal with, given the number [of activists] we have,” said David Kellam, a member of the Occupy Baltimore media team. “There’s about 10 or so people who are working their butts off to hold it together with duct tape.” (Baltimore Sun)
  • From Channel 7 in Denver: “FORT COLLINS, Colo. — Police have arrested an Occupy Fort Collins protester in connection with a $10 million arson fire that damaged dozens of condominiums and businesses in Fort Collins. Benjamin David Gilmore, 29, was arrested on Thursday night on suspicion of arson, burglary and criminal mischief.”
  • Among the banners and flags are now discarded packets of condoms, cigarettes and bottles of spirits, while naked youngsters happily get together with just sleeping bags covering their modesty. (Daily Mail)
  • In the morning, a woman was arrested at the encampment outside City Hall after she allegedly set another person’s clothes on fire. In another incident hours later, a woman was arrested after protesters said she struck a man with a tent pole. Both were booked on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon. (L.A. Times)
  • “These protests have a history of welcoming everyone and just assuming they’re on your side,” said David Meyer, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Irvine, who studies protest movements. (ABC News)
  • An “Occupy Wall Street” participant has been arrested in connection with two sexual assaults at Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park, according to a law enforcement official.  Police arrested 26-year-old Tonye Iketubosin, of Brooklyn, on Tuesday after two women reported two separate assaults to the New York Police Department, the official said. (Fox News)
  • The occupiers have made themselves so thoroughly at home that their village boasts named thoroughfares. Here, at the corner of Jefferson Street and Trotsky Alley [sic], one can find not only a glorious nexus of historical illiteracy and irony-proof earnestness, but a living, breathing blight: barricades and booming drums, the hum of generators and the smell of burning fuel, respect for the conventions of hygiene that is uneven at best, and increasingly, the threat of theft, assault, and even rape. (National Review)

And we want to bring this mess to downtown Santa Ana? No thanks.

I don’t mind these folks protesting during the day, but overnight? No way. We have ordinances against this for a reason. It is a threat to public safety to allow these folks to run amok at night.

And why are they occupying Santa Ana to begin with? This is a Democratic town. We only have two Republicans elected here – Supervisor Janet Nguyen and Councilman Carlos Bustamante. We should be rid of both of them in 2012.

Some of the folks who want to camp out here don’t even live here. Orange Juice blogger Gregg Diamond lives in Brea, where he NEVER complains about the Republicans who run his town. Orange Juice blog editor Vern Nelson lives in Huntington Beach – another Republican town. Why not occupy HB?

Doing this to Santa Ana will hurt the poor. Our city is broke. Forcing us to spend money we don’t have on increased police patrols and overtime is totally asinine. It will force our city to lay off workers and cut even more city services.

“We’re trying to follow the progressive precedence of Irvine,” community organizer Alicia Rojas told the Voice of OC.

Irvine allowed the camping but they don’t have the homeless problem we have. They ought to build a permanent campground for the homeless at the Great Park. They already have a farm there, so they can feed them.

I suspect the Santa Ana City Council will vote on an alternative motion to recognize the Occupy protest for what it is, but there is no way our Council majority is going to allow these people to take over our town at night.


By Editor

The New Santa Ana blog has been covering news, events and politics in Santa Ana since 2009.

47 thoughts on “Update: Santa Ana Occupy’s camping bid is D.O.A.”
  1. “And we want to bring this mess to downtown Santa Ana? No thanks.”……. Hmmmm

    FYI, Admin that mess are your unalienable rights.[emphases added]

    However, I am concern about giving a platform to psychopaths and rapist’s of the constitution like Communist Vern Nelson and Zionist Greg Diamond. (They really “F”ed your Orange Juice Blog)

    However, historically such lumpenproletariat never prevailed so I gees they have constitutional right too.

    I believe that this is very important cycle in otherwise sheep like USA society to regain its self consciousness.

    So relax Admin about the Santa Ana Occupation and the Usual Suspects and be concern about the Communist Vern Nelson and Zionist Greg Diamond because they are your next domestic enemy, and;

    These are my new Trojan Horse candidates.

  2. mmmmmmmm Carnitas. Government is owned by Apathetic Do-nothings that think that they are holding society together because some bigger corporation or interest paid them to think so or act so. We need more thinking out of the box or in a tent or in an “Occupy” Assembly circle. Shamans are still more respectable, moral, and safer than Zombies. Much respect for the Council members that want to hear the debate for or against the current “System” ordinances.

  3. Admin, when your foreclosure kicks you to the curb. I hope your family comes up with all kinds of new schemes to avoid the no sleeping ordinances. You can all sneak off to jack in the box and find some shut eye in the booth over in the corner with your 99 cent tacos digesting all of the bull shit devices society uses to distance itself from the truth about the sorry state of our economy. peace. MMMMMMMM Carnitas. and a beer would be nice. dont let the cops see. You might be taking your first step into the incarceration trap. Ciations, then city jail, then possibly prison. You are not allowed to be anything other than zombie!!!! unless Occupiers fight the system! peace.

    1. In the words of Amy Winehouse, “what kind of f*ckery is this?” Allowing anarchists to camp here is going to deplete our already strained city budget.

      And the working families in town aren’t sheep. They are decent people who are trying to survive.

  4. Uh-oh, mateo, we’re bothering Pedroza!

    This “I don’t mind protests that I can ignore but I do mind protests that I can’t ignore” mindset is exactly why overnight camping is worth pursuing. It’s unsettling. Orange County tries not to let itself be unsettled.

    Already, what this is doing is to shine a spotlight on Santa Ana’s usually hidden homeless problem. Doesn’t that seem like a good thing?

    Here’s the approach that Pedroza could take here: this is not Santa Ana’s problem; this is Orange County’s problem. The strategy of OC has been to let its poor and homeless become concentrated in Santa Ana a few other areas so that the rest of the county can ignore the problems of economic dislocation. It’s time for the county to recognize its responsibility as well.

    I find it useful to think of Occupy protesters as time-travelers from the year 2015, giving advance warning of how continued economic stratification will affect our society. We’re a taste of what is to come.

    By the way — I think that Santa Ana spent a hell of a lot more money on its couple of dozen cops and horses being used to arrest four people and cite a few more on Oct. 22.

    As for Brea and Huntington Beach: the third city most likely to be targeted for an overnight occupation, if people can muster the forces would probably be Brea’s big brother, Fullerton. I live on the border and would probably be involved with that, if it happens. HB could be another likely spot for an eventual overnight occupation, should one come.

    We’re obviously not ready for that yet; the movement in OC is barely a month old. But it’s catching on.

    As for the horror stories you tell, Art, come to Irvine and see how people police themselves. You identify serious problems — many of which already exist even without occupations, of course — that people need to address carefully. That we’re having this discussion here at all is one success of the Occupy movement.

    I hope that Santa Ana takes the path of Irvine rather than of Oakland. Among other things, it’s cheaper.

  5. Put them in Eddie West, so we can listen to Grandpa tardiff complain about how we taking space from the BILLION DOLLAR Diocease of Orange.

    Greg, you are right this IS a county problem, and we in Santa Ana would certainly appreciate it if THE REST OF THE COUNTY WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION INSTEAD OF THE PROBLEM (ie: Brea dumping it’s homeless in Civic center).

    It’s getting cold, they will go home soon, unlike the ones without shelter, who will still depend on Santa Ana for solutions.

  6. The county parks charge 20 dollars a night for overnight camping.

    It is only fair for these people to pay a permit fee and to supply potables for bathroom breaks.

    The city, county, and government offices are open from 8am to 5pm. , the prime protest times.

  7. Art, these protesters are standing up for what they believe in and bless them for that they aren’t pathetic sell outs like you. And to think you sold out for so little.

  8. “The county parks charge 20 dollars a night for overnight camping”…….. Hmmmmm

    cook, the 24/7 occupation is not recreational activity.

    Somehow you must separate in you mind difference between the recreation, homelessness, and unalienable rights!

    They are not synonymous.

    I was hoping that you are not as simplistic as the local HOA, CITY, COUNTY fascists so every time you see a tent you will scream camping.

    The constitutional rights do not end at 10:00 pm and start at 6:00 AM and that you must stand holding your sign in you hand while exercising them.

    You have right to lay down and sleep while protesting.

    1. You know I was stalked by the cops when I complained about the DUI checkpoints.

      As for the deficit, it is clearly the fault of the unions and Dave Ream and the past City Councils, who were controlled by Republicans.

  9. So you admit that COPs are abusive, Admin?

    As to deficit, I have been challenging Pulido since 2002 about the budget. He is not republican and in spite of having one vote on the council he runs the council.

    What have council done since 2002 to stop unions except for getting check and endorsements every election?…. Huh?

    It is Council’s 30M deficit and if you see it differently then there maybe the “selling out” what Jose is talking about.

    1. You obviously are uninformed. $25 million of that deficit is pensions. Those were not accrued in the time that the current Council has been in charge.

  10. “Those were not accrued in the time that the current Council has been in charge”……. Hmmmmmm

    Sometimes you are really surprising me with your logic.

    Did at anytime in the existence of the current Council the Council hired new employes under a different pension program which would not create $25 million deficit in the years ahead?

    Did at anytime in the existence of the current Council the Council actually rewritten the alleged Republican majorities pension plans during renewal of union contracts?

    If so tell me when?

    Also when was the council 4 Republicans v. 3 Democrats the voting republican majority.

    According to Voice of OC there are 800 employes making over 100K and Paul Walters is openly spiking his pension to 500K per year. I recall that around 2004 he retired, was collecting pension and was working, doing double dipping.

    That was done under the current Council.

    Even if you would be correct there is somewhere between 5M to 10M additional deficit created by current council.

    There is also degrading of Cities bonds to Beta starting about 2004. Did current council done anything to maintain bonds at AAA?

    The problem is the current council!

    It did not taken appropriate action when it should.

    Read your own Old OJB posts to understand how wrong you are.

  11. Hey Pork Chop (AKA Greg Diamond),

    It is clear that you are ignoring our repeated requests for you to explain that how, as a JEW, it’s OK for DanC. and the Liberal OC blog to make fun of our religion.

    We all guessed that you were just another hired gun, and now you have proved that.

    So are you just ignoring the issue?

    Are you afraid of offending your friends.

    Either way you and they are looking pretty two faced.

    Plus ++ you look like a pretty big pussy and phony for not standing up.

    A proper resonse could have been:

    “I know Dan and like him, his unfortunate choice of words doesn’t affect our friendship, but I disagree and am disapointed that he used these words”. PERIOD.

    But you are a silly FAKE liberal, using your religion as a shield.


  12. Wow.

    Thats to the point.

    And pretty hard to argue, Greg Diamond.

    Where are you on this?

    My advice: Since you are a newcomer to OC politics (blogging) take his. Put it to rest.

  13. You a**holes make accusations that are way out of proportion. What? – they pointed out ethnic food preferences in a joking manner – BFD. You look like and are idiots.

  14. We at occupy OC are committed to to stoping the atrocities of coprprate America, the 1% and the Republicans.


    unless of course it rains alttle and themp drops below 62! Then it’s right back to Brea! Where none of those icky homeless live!

  15. After the city council discuss the merits of allowing camping at the county civic center and discards it.

    Will the occupiers go home happy, to sleep in they warm beds, out of the rain and the smell of the unwashed homeless?

    I think they will be very happy to be let off the hook, and be able to blame the evil council at the same time. It is a win – win situation.

  16. cook,

    Please study the word Renaissance!

    Historically, old people hate Renaissance except for me in my age of 66, which is 10 years more than your age, I believe in reincarnation and rebirth.

    In contrast Pulido/Walters duet have no choice because every drop of the blood spilled in Santa Ana will be instantly known around the world this time.

    So let them trample a mother in front of 18 mo old child by their horses…. if thy dare.

    In 1968 Prague Spring uprising (aka Velvet Revolution) I have seen local police chief jumping from the window for a fear of the fear itself.

  17. “This is no revolution. Just a bunch of nutty wankers”…. Hmmm

    Admin, the American revolution was won with much lesser number per capita.

    Besides, it will take many attempts with a ram to brake the old wall — this is just first wave.

    As we know the movement will become in full swing when you will proclaim to be a part of it and apologize for your current opposition…… as you always do.

    1. The Founding Fathers were brilliant hard-working men who sacrificed everything for freedom. These anarchists couldn’t carry their water. A year from now we won’t even remember Occupy. And to add salt to the wound, I expect the Republicans to beat Obama. Imagine how mortified this unwashed crowd will be when that happens? I voted Libertarian last time and expect I will do so again next year.

  18. I have a degree in political science Admin so trust me when I tell you that a concept of revolution was taught left, right, up and down in CSSR military academy.

    Give it time!

    I do not agree with their demands ether, Nelson, Diamond and that bolshevistic crowd?….. NO!

    It is a cycle and the beginning of the American Renaissance and it must go on.

  19. I will definitely urge the Council to allow overnight stay based on Tobe v. City of Santa Ana, 9 Cal. 4th 1069, 892 P.2d 1145 (1995)[In 1995, the California Supreme Court reversed the judgment of the Court of Appeals. The court held that the challenged ordinance, which may have an incidental impact on travel, does not violate the right to travel as it has a purpose other than the restriction of travel and does not discriminate among classes of persons by penalizing the exercise of the right to travel for some. In addition, the court found that the ordinance penalized particular conduct as opposed to status and thus did not violate plaintiffs’ rights under the Eighth Amendment, and was not unconstitutionally vague or overbroad. However, the Court noted that the result might be different in an as-applied, as opposed to a facial, challenge.]

    NLCHP filed an amicus brief in support of plaintiffs-appellees, as did the U.S. Department of Justice.

    In the OCCUPY movement the constitutionality facial challenge is prima facie case.

    Note: In the context of American jurisprudence, a facial challenge is a challenge to a statute in court, in which the plaintiff alleges that the legislation is always, and under all circumstances, unconstitutional, and therefore void. It is contrasted with an as-applied challenge, which alleges that the statute may be, in part, unconstitutional, in redress of specific and particular injury.

  20. Stanley, Tobe is mostly an adverse precedent, denying a facial challenge, though it does leave open the possibility of an as-applied challenge (which is what I’d expect to see.) So you wouldn’t file a case “based on” Tobe.

    WTWE, WTF?

    Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember some discussion of a ham sandwich. I don’t recall following it closely. I’m not usually one to get outraged and call for the suppression of anti-Semitic slurs (assuming that this was one), because I think that it’s helpful to have this sort of behavior on display. Stanislaw, for example, has been a godsend in this respect.

    You show me the links. If I think it should be condemned, I will condemn it. And then … ???

    Yes, I was able to remember a single post of yours where JEW was written in caps because it was the post to which I was replying. That was not a huge feat of memory.

    I’m a member of the DPOC (for which I do not speak); I don’t know about “important.” Nope, I don’t know Dan C’ski. Maybe we’ve been in the same room, maybe we’ve spoken, but if so I didn’t know that that was him.

    When have you seen me “hide when [I] get called out”? The reason you don’t see my comments sooner is that Art still has me on “moderation” status.

    Most lawyers wouldn’t bother with this. You want me to read about the dreaded “ham sandwich” comment, post the links. My experience, by the way, is that even most non-observant Jews don’t crave ham or pork. (Bacon, though, is another story. Seriously — here’s a link: http://www.forward.com/articles/139697/.)

  21. Art, you can’t judge public interest just by how many people walk on Saturday night. It’s easier to pull off a march when one has an encampment to serve as a focal point for people to meet and plan. That’s why I hope that the Council gives Occupy OC – Santa Ana at least a two week trial to see how this affects the movement. It’s better for it to be channeled into something productive — as you and I apparently agree that it is (or should be) during the daylight hours — then to see it deteriorate into a more freewheeling anarchistic movement. Ask Irvine.

    1. I am making my assessment based on the people I interact with here in Santa Ana, at church, at my kids’ schools, at Little League and at Cub Scouts. Most folks agree that this is a waste of time.

  22. There is not much to those Occupaiers at the Civic Center in Santa Ana.

    Some times there may be a dozen, but most times I walked by and talked to them, there is no more than 3 to 5 people.

  23. “Stanley, Tobe is mostly an adverse precedent, denying a facial challenge, though it does leave open the possibility of an as-applied challenge (which is what I’d expect to see.) So you wouldn’t file a case “based on” Tobe.”……. Hmmmmmm

    I do appreciate your mal-advise Esq. Diamond.

    Since I have left the OJB based on your turning it into a Zionist and Bolshevistic propaganda blog, which makes me vomit every time I log in, I do not plan to get into any discussion with you here either.

    However, I will make an exception re Tobe because you err to interpret the Tobe in proper context to the OCCUPY movement.

    The most important part is that the California Supreme Court reversed the judgment of the Court of Appeals based on a facial, challenge. [The court held that the challenged ordinance, which may have an incidental impact on travel, does not violate the right to travel as it has a purpose other than the restriction of travel and does not discriminate among classes of persons by penalizing the exercise of the right to travel for some.]

    However, the Court noted that the result might be different in an as-applied, as opposed to a facial, challenge.

    Based on the above, the court examined the same ordinance as applied here against the OCCUPY movement as to freedom to travel [NOT] freedom to protest.

    Since the the freedom of protest is constitutionally protected right, even City agrees that it is from 6:00 am to 10:00 pm a facial, challenge of the ordinance is “moot”.

    Therefore, if anyone like ACLU would bring suit against city it is essentially decided by substituting freedom of travel with freedom of protest 24/7 cause of action.

    The court must rule against the city if retesting the ordinance constitutionality against freedom of the 24/7 protest.

    That is my argument tonight in the chamber re the OCCUPATION, item 85B.

    In addition, if allowed, in public comets item 90, I will briefly revisit my prior demand to amend rules of meeting and ethics by presenting recently filed ACLU lawsuit against the County re Cal. Civil Code section 47(b) which provides that a speech in the chamber is “privileged” even if offensive or malicious, in support of my prior demand.

  24. “I don’t know Dan C’ski. Maybe we’ve been in the same room, maybe we’ve spoken, but if so I didn’t know that that was him.”

    So you’re saying that you wouldn’t know him from a ham sandwich – is that right?

  25. junior, I presume that Dan is bipedal, so I could tell them apart. But I wouldn’t know him from you without an introduction, assuming that you too are bipedal.

  26. Art: So we have a good sample of people who talk to Art. That’s called “selection bias” and it is not how popular opinion is measured.

    But even if it is, and even if you gave no indication of your own views on the issue — that’s called “demand characteristics” — then all we know is that many people are not on board, either yet or ever. So? Social progress always has naysayers and sideline-sitters. Many more people in Manhattan are not taking part in their protest than people in Santa Ana are not taking part in this one. These things take time.

    How many people do you think took part in the Montgomery bus boycott when it began? Not nearly as many as those who, as it became understood that it had been the right thing to do, claimed to have supported it. (I’d talk about involvement in the union movements for minimum wage and against child labor and such, but I don’t want to provoke you.)

    It’s OK that you don’t get it, but I am disappointed. See that — that I’m disappointed with you is a mark of respect; I thought that you’d be on board. Oh well.

    1. I knew you would say that. The fact is that my city is a city of working families. And we have more churches than any other OC city. This is a decent community that is just trying to survive. These folks don’t have time for silly protests. They are trying to save their homes, feed their kids and still find some shred of enjoyment in life.

      The Occupiers mostly don’t live here – and of those that do the majority are artsy types. They don’t reflect the people at large in my city.

      I live here. I have lived here for over 15 years. I know this community like you and Vern never will. The only way you will ever understand this community is to live here too. Don’t worry, we have plenty of nice lofts you can invest in if you are interested.

      Sorry but I don’t buy into protests as a way to change things. I started this blog so I could inform the people of my city and really foster change. That is a lot more effective than endless protesting, IMHO.

    1. You’re kidding right? I quoted numerous well-established newspaper and TV sources, as well as a few online sources. I got all those links from Google News.

      They are a lot more legitimate than your “mosh pit” blog.

  27. 1. Did he say he was OK with Dan’s stupid comment? I believe him that he reads the Liberal OC even less than you and I do.

    2. He said “ally?” More than once even? That would be weird, creepy and scary, given the hostility between the LOC and us. I’m pretty sure he’s said he met Chris and talked to him before. Stop making things what they’re not.

    3. At a quick glance I saw you quoting FOX News and the National Review – far right sites that would be expected to demonize the movement. And then some of the other links aren’t even that damning.

  28. I pissed on the ham sandwich/JEW fire, for which I regret (my pee is incederary). But, I agree in spririt what the poster said, there seems to be a terrible double standard whenever the Liberal OC is involved.

    So let’s be PROGRESSIVE and move on.

    Greg, Welcome to Santa Ana. We take our shit seriously here, because it’s our shit. So moving right along, we as citizens of Santa Ana, are really concerned about the affect of the occupy OC’s affect on our community.

    We, as you have aknowleged bear the brunt of the cost of the counties homeless problem, we have for 25 years. The last thing our city needs is a protest movement to stretch our thin resources, even further. I would love for the Occupy OC folks to visit Catholic Charities or maybe offer up some help at St. Joseph’s loaves and fishes, Ask for Andy Sevedra, he’ll put them to work. (a cause, I have never seen Junoir at, but he champions Mater dei…..Sorry, I slipped).

    I saw how Dan responded that irvine doesn’t “bus” thier homeless to Santa Ana, rather, the police “drive them” because thats where the services are…..WHAT THE F*CK!

    My point is, in addition to the suffering middle class, Santa Ana hosts some real poverty, the movement is better off camping on the lawn of a city that has a billion dollar park, unrealized than a urban center struggling to survive.

    It is really a slap in the face to the people of Santa Ana that the movement would do this. CHASE bank has more investments in Irvine, than EVERY OTHER city in OC. Hit them there. not at city hall but in Woodbridge and Northwood.

    I gotta go, Diamond, I am going to be in Brea tonight for the Girls Volleyball game against Saddleback. I might hit the Shady Nook afterwards, I’ll be in a Packers Shirt (that was a joke Dan).

  29. “The Occupiers mostly don’t live here – and of those that do the majority are artsy types. They don’t reflect the people at large in my city.”

    So says the “Democrat”, the “progressive”, the lover of diversity.

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