Santa Ana Police Department (SAPD) officers shot and killed a man Thursday who was high on drugs but posed no threat to officers or his family, the victim’s sister-in-law said, according to the L.A. Times/OC Now.
The gun held by Elmer Alexander Perez, 27, turned out to be a replica, Santa Ana police Cpl. Anthony Bertagna said. “There were no safety markings on the gun to indicate it was anything but a real gun,” Bertagna said, as reported by the O.C. Register.
I had a long conversation today with a friend who visited Perez’ family. He saw the bullet holes in the walls. He spoke to Perez’ pregnant wife, whose son saw his daddy die.
Was the shooting justified?
My friend said that the family told the SAPD that Perez was high and was not a threat to anyone but himself. They hoped he would get into rehab. That is not going to happen now.
The problem with such incidents is multifaceted. The police are not trained to wound. They are not equipped to bring a suspect down non-violently. They don’t like to use tasers as it puts them too close to the suspects. And the police know that domestic calls quite often turn into violent episodes that often claim the lives of police officers.
One has to wonder if the nation’s police departments are looking at better ways to arrest people, non-violently.
Cops in Great Britain and in Japan do not carry guns, for the most part. Is that something we should consider here, where so many criminals are armed to the teeth? Is there some other solution?
Back to the Perez case. According to my friend, one of the SAPD cops started asking Perez’ family, after the shooting, if they were here legally. If that is true, I find it most disturbing. I would have to believe that this was an attempt to intimidate this family. The family also reported that a senior officer showed up after the shooting and he yelled at the shooters, asking them why they did not call for back-up. This too was not reported in the Register or in the Times.
Clearly we need to investigate this incident thoroughly. The Orange County District Attorney’s Office is investigating the incident, which is standard procedure for any officer-involved shooting, according to ABC News. Can we trust them to be objective? I hope so.
Don’t get me wrong, I think we have a lot of good police officers in town. But if we have some bad apples we need to know. And we need to stop them.
My condolences to the family but if the man had a gun in his hand, and the officers believed their lives were in danger they had every right to shoot. Now I’m no lawyer but if I was facing in intoxicated man, who was aggressive, and I saw a gun, I would immediately feel as though my life was in danger. Further, the argument then follows on why more than one officer shot the man, well it’s plain and simple, it’s not like one officer was going to stop and say, “Hold up, I’ll shoot him.” The officers all felt as though their lives were in danger and fired.
Now I am assuming that there were several shots fired by several officers, those details aren’t quite clear.
The problem Jonathan is that the victim’s sister TOLD the cops he had a toy gun.
You have to wonder if the senior officer who showed up was right. Should they have set up a perimeter and called for back-up?
There were indeed many shots fired. My friend, who saw the condo, said it was riddled with bullet holes, in the area where the shooting occurred.
Perhaps this was all textbook, but it sure seems a bit fishy to me…
I do remember reading that the sister did indeed tell officers he had a, “…possible toy gun.” With any matter toy gun or not, it is standard procedure if I’m not mistaken to approach the suspect as though he is armed and dangerous. The man was intoxicated and had been involved in a case of domestic violence, so officers were already on high alert. Again, my condolences to the family, but I have to side with the officers.
Jonathan,
It is not that I am not siding with the officers. Rather I think there are some good questions about how this incident played out. The family told the cops that they were not at risk. The officers should have set up a perimeter and waited for backup – and a negotiator. Now it is too late. No child should have to see his daddy killed the week before Christmas…
And what about the cop who asked the family if they were here legally? I have a real problem with that.
Just another dead beat drug taking sperm donor and yet again a unemployed preganant mother and two kids bound to become another example of why so many gangs are in Santa Ana!
The police are as awful as the entire community of Santa Ana! And the kids are the one’s who suffer!
It’s so Mexico!
An example of why Mexico has 30,000 people dead from corruption and drugs!
And the example of why the Dream Act failed!
These police murders need to stop. For too long police hide behind this shoot to kill policy. They taught to shoot twice at the head, twice at center mass, the heart and the intent is death. Never is the goal to save a life, it rests on a policy to take life. Bob Black Crow
I feel sorry for the kids who most likely are headed for a misrable life surrounded by single mothers and drug addicts!
He was deported!!!!! Most likely she is an illegal immigrant too! So why are the ICE not envolved!
The brother, mother, father and wife are all illegal immigrants! God this makes me completely sick! Look at what is coming in to this country!
Look at what we are paying to board!!!
Why are the police not turning these people over to ICE????
A mother who waged a two-year battle to bring her daughter’s killer to justice was shot to death, possibly by the same man suspected of murdering her teenager.
A security video recording shows masked men pulling up in a car in front of the governor’s office in the northern city of Chihuahua.
One appeared to exchange words with anti-crime crusader Marisela Escobedo Ortiz, who was holding a vigil outside.
She tried to flee by running across the street, but the gunman chased her down and shot her in the head late Thursday, said Jorge Gonzalez, special state prosecutor for crime prevention.
Ms Escobedo was taken by ambulance to a hospital, where she died within minutes.
On Friday, a group of demonstrators gathered outside the Interior Department in Mexico City to protest the killing, briefly scuffling with police while chanting ‘Not one more death’.
And far to the north in Ciudad Juarez, where Ms Escobedo’s 17-year-old daughter’s burned and dismembered remains were found in a rubbish bin in June 2009, activists protested outside the state prosecutors office with signs demanding ‘Justice for Marisela’.
MQ says:
We can no longer blame Americans for the scum that is coming out of Mexico and who reside in Mexico! 30,000 people dead! And a woman who only wanted real justice for her child; shot in the head!
The idiot, ASK A MEXICAN stated that the cultural decay is due to NAFTA??? Well. NAFTA has nothing to do with Santa Ana and NAFTA did not make a man shoot a woman in the head!
Until not only this issue with drug taking dead beat latino illegal immigrants, is more important than political correctness, the poor woman shot in the head is not the last!
Mexico and it’s people have become really bad for their country and a disaster for this one!
The whole of Mexico needs to lie on the couch and get a dose of reality! American’s need to read more British papers, where you can actually get the truth about what is going on south of our border!
The Daily Mail issued the above story!
He less of these dumb ass people the better.
The cops had no right to use deadly force. That is reserved only when shot at only then is their lives are in actual danger. Santa Ana Police like to twist facts and also shoot people in the back. Half of their force do not know laws as they are on the books. It starts at the top with the chief he would rather endanger lives than protect citizens or property. Those are the words out of his mouth when asked about damage to private property. Remember they took to protect and serve off of their squad cars more than likely to keep from getting sued for false advertising. And to Michelle quinn the real problems to this country are when the europeans came to this country and destroyed it. not when people who have been here for thousands of years are not allowed to relocate due to the white mans greed.
Joe, if you find this country so offense and you think that this country is distroyed! Go to Mexico, such a wonderful place to be, just hold on to your head!
Or why not Iran, Iraq or even south africa???
You will love it! lots of lovely brown people, who could not care less about money… Though you might need a few bob to pay for that M60 you may need!!
Ok so white people are a little greedy, SO WHAT!
Count your blessing mate that you are not in an all brown country, because most of them are crap!
Sad, but true!
Happy Christmas too ya!
SAPD has this one, I commend them! Maybe someone should change some of the major issues Santa Ana faces and we wouldn’t be having this problem! It was either someone with a criminal background or an officer down, the right choice was made
Nicnapez how do you know that the officers that shot Elmer don’t have criminal backgrounds or complainants against them ?
——– Original Message ——–
Subject: Stanislav Fiala is asking: Should we train SAPD13 against knife attacks?
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 19:22:04 -0800
From: Standa
To: Walters, Paul
CC: Pulido, Miguel , Benavides, David , Martinez, Michele , Harrelson, Anthony , Alvarez, Claudia , Bustamante, Carlos , Tinajero, Sal , Sarmiento, Vincent , McGeachy, Douglas
Kudos to you Chief for killing another lowlife Mexican (a progenitor of
the city council members) with a knife in his hand.
However, I have noticed that SAPD13 a division of the SAPD is improperly
trained against the alleged knife attacks.
As always Chief, I do propose positive solution to my criticism.
Therefore, you may retain me to teach your fatso SAPD13 officers how to
defend themselves against the knife attack, such may be the legendary
Rabo’s bayonet, based on my prior Czech military training using KGB manuals.
-Stan
@joe – you obviously have no idea on when Police can shoot. Them having to wait to be shot at before they themselves shoot would be the stupidest policy ever. If someone is pointing anything that even resembles a gun at them they should fire, they shouldn’t wait before they have one bullet in them before shooting.
watch and learn youngsters…you only have one chance at this great thing called life….
hey the officer is just doing his job