Pulido’s lawyer gets dragged into the Santiago Creek bike trail melee

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• Anciano says:

  "Seeing the recreational bike riders in my Floral Park neighborhood makes me feel safer, just like seeing the civic center police officiers and judges jogging over the noon hour"

  ..... If you are suggesting that the roads be blocked from auto use and only bikes and jogging be allowed, I don’t think your neighbors will go along with that.

  There have been cities that have blocked off car travel on some streets to provide for bikes and LSV use. In sunny California that could be option.

  Keep this good ideas coming.

• cook,
  Anciano was only saying that he likes seing bikers going through the neighborhood, that they use the sidewalks now, that it is safe and easy to get around NOT that he wants to block of the roads. That's some poor reading comprehension.

• Thanks anonster. While some of the people with kids might ride on the side walk, most just ride on the street on Riverside Dr. and Riviera to Santa Clara...then on to the Santa Ana river trail. It's easy, it's fun, and we get the bonus of seeing all of those rich athletic people from Villa Park, Orange Park Acres, Cowen Heights in that sporty biking gear riding in Santa Ana. Who knows, maybe some of them will stop off at Pico de Gallo for a bite to eat. Most of these folks wouldn't ride the streets of Santa Ana on a dare if not for this short detour. I go to the Black History parade and Fiesta Patrias each year with my grandkids and the only Gringo I ever see on a bike is this friendly older gentleman who rides an adult tricycle and waves to the kids! I say, why not bring that same love to the masses by providing a reason for others to ride through our city, and not just in the creek bed.

• It is nice to ride on the streets of Floral park, with the traffic barriers blocking 98 percent of the cut though traffic makes street riding very safe.

  Now Broadway, Main, 17th, Bristol have paid the price of having to bear the burden of the additional auto traffic that’s been pushed out of the North Santa Ana neighborhoods.

  Looking forward to the alterative routes designs the local have to offer.

  Why do some people buy property along a public easement, and then complaint about the public use of that easement. They knew all about the easement and its future uses, the real-estate agent had them sign the papers of disclosure.

  • I stopped commenting on this post because I had nothing further to say. But, I have been reading the comments and this shows what a discussion should be on this forum. Here is my two cents, after having read everyone else's. Disclosure: I signed the petition.

    It's one thing to talk about pre-disclosure of an existing easement. It's quite another to decide, after all these years, to exercise eminent domain over someone's property which was bought, fair and square, and then have the lines of that property blemished for the sake of the city wanting to complete a public project. I am not a fan of eminent domain but understand the purpose of it. I would like to see the bike trail finished but not at the expense of the homeowner.

    Now, trail improvement can be done (it can) without the taking of someone else's private property, then I am all for it. If it can't, well, too bad. There should be another way.

    But. what it really sounds like to me is that you have some homeowners whose property backs up to the creek, not that they own property that would have to be condemned. That being the case, they don't have a property interest in this matter. And, to be honest with you, I can't see why they would complain about families using the creek trail. It's certainly better than having that section isolated and cut off so that only the homeless and gangs are using it as a cut-through.

• There are many options such as the City could place a path down the 15 ft wide portion that the city owns but that would require removal of trees as the existing path travels along sections of both private and public property.

  Also, some homeowners extended their fence lines into/over the city owned property so they would need to pull their fences back from the city owned portion.

  IMHO, I hope the other option where the homeowners who own portions of the creek bed yet are not maintaining it will allow construction of a safe trail that follows most (not all) of the current trail to minimize the removal of trees. That would be a win-win for everyone. They would provide easements, not have the liability, and it can be maintained by those who care enough to take care of it (the city and volunteers).

  If not, IMHO, then place it on the City/County owned path the whole length as that is what most of the public needs. That means that there would be 2 trails. The existing zig zag one and a safe public one.

  Permanently fencing it off so no families has access except those who live along this section of the creek is not fair to the other people who live in these neighboorhoods or adjoining communities. It will be a bad reflection of these neighborhoods to be so exclusive towards others. As most of us learned in Kindergarden, there is enough room in the "sandbox" in the playground for all of us to play. Not everyone will be in the sandbox at the same time.

  I am confident that a win-win will eventually be reached if enough good people speak up and our elected officials do what is right for the community. After all, Santa Ana reported 646 accidents between cars and bikes to the OCTA during the last reporting period. Plus, families need more greenway trails to walk on like in Santiago Park and rest of Orange.

  This is probably my last comment on this blog. I prefer more face to face (am new to this social media). Signing off to take the Dog out for a walk on the creek today (I clean up after him), will be watering a couple of new Oak trees, and a bike ride on the official sections of the trail. Will be seeing smiling faces and will be sharing with them stories such as above. None of the existing official trails would exist if it was not for good people having the courage and stamina to make it happen.

  Lets pull together and be the "Light of the World". Fences to keep public out of greenways creates more darkness in society. North & South OC has been opening up more of their open spaces/greenways. Why should we do the opposite in Central OC?

• I have lived on the creek for over twenty years and for ALL of those years the creek has been OPEN and ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE.
  What's changed?
  The proponents of the bike trail have been agitating for eminent domain and have been cutting down trees in the creek bed. I for one want the creek to remain open, but NOT at the expense of the trees, if these bike road enthusiasts can't control themselves and continue to chop away without regard to private property rights, the homeowners along the creek will be FORCED to PROTECT their property rights.

  All Mark Lindsey has left out of his arguments is "think of the children", this "do it for the community", i"t will bring us together", blah, blah, blah is only to obfuscate what the bike road means to this portion of the creek, TOTAL DESTRUCTION.

  We all would love to have a bike path that winds through the trees, but that is NOT POSSIBLE in this portion of the creek. In order to build a Class 1 bike trail which is what Mark Lindsey is advocating for, the trees will HAVE to be cut down, the embankment graded and built up and people's private property will have to be TAKEN through EMINENT DOMAIN.
  He can pretend and spin the facts, but that is the truth. It is unfortunate, I wish the REALITY were different, I wish we could have both, but the community is going to HAVE to choose;

  PAVED BIKE ROAD OR TREES AND PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.

• Instead of cutting down the trees, allow the property owners nearest to relocate them on their private property. Since moving the trees would only be a few feet, the chances of successful transplants would be high.

  That would clear the way for a bike trail with the added benefit of it being out of the way of the future flood control rebuild that is coming and doesn’t raise any issues about private property and imminent domain.

• As I ran on the trail this afternoon, virtually no trash, a few others enjoying it, and some graffitti on the trees (same as always- hate it). Not sure where the property lines are at, but the trees don't look like the ones you would easily transplant b/c they are leaning and it is sort of like a game of "pick up stix" to where moving one will have an impact on others.

  I found it strange actually that I saw more trash on the paved portion of the creekbed. I also found it ironic that one of the pictures that I think I have seen associated with the "look how dirty the non-paved section is" I believe is actually along, but not on, the paved portion of the trail to where I don't really see how the paving of it would eliminate/reduce that type of graffitti- I am referring to the section under the bridge/freeway/Broadway/Main (not sure which). I think it may even be the picture on above right with the bike trail petition. Ironic I guess...maybe I am wrong and it is somewhere else.

  I do think that with a little maintenance that it could be an even better dirt nature trail. Even a nicer greenspace than it is now. Not in favor of fencing it off- improve it, keep it natural w/o paving, enjoy it, and maintain it. Hopefully the neighbors would be in favor of that also.

• One group that has not been considered in all of this talk of bike trails is Adults who ride Tricycles.
  How about a special bike lane for adults who ride Tricycles? The problem with the creek bike lane idea is that if you get Four Adults on Tricycles riding all at the same time it won't be wide enough. I would suggest an Adult Tricycle lane on Sycamore street running south to Civic Center and then west to the Santa Ana river trail. You might get Zeller's Cyclery to sponser the trail and hold events there to inspire other riders.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEq0mtEIuXw

• Nice idea Anciano “I would suggest an Adult Tricycle lane on Sycamore street running south to Civic Center“

  But Sycamore doesn’t exist north of 17th st and the portion from Washington to Tenth St has been abandon for OBP.

  But there is a under used street available. Heliotrope Dr. The barricade at 17th St. can be removed and Heliotrope can be a one way street exiting Floral Park, and the other half of the street can become the bike lane. Part of Benton Ln and most of Riverside Dr would be one way also completing the bike lane to near Broadway, but going back up to Flower and connecting with the Memory Ln portion.

  Now there is still the lack of connection to the current end under the freeway.

  That can be accomplished with a bike bridge crossing over to the south side and continuing south along the Broadway exit to a prior abandoned street and then connecting to the bike trail on Riverside Dr.

  I am sure that the creek side property owners would chip in to buy out the home owner who is living on the abandoned street so the bike lane can be kept off of public property on the creek.

  Riverside Dr would be one way, east from Flower to Benton, opening up half the street for the bike lane.

  Also, at 17th street the bike lane can cross and travel south on Parton. Willard can get its own traffic diverters and the trail is a straight thought shot to the School, Library and Civic Center.

  I think a few street all over the city and county should be turned into bike roads and this is a good time to start, because the private auto is going the way of the Dodo bird.