Occupy Santa Ana to begin on Saturday, Oct. 22

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• Not allowed to camp out on city property? Has anyone been down to City Hall lately? The full-blown camp sites seem bigger now than they did in the 80's.

• What a great idea! Go to the poorest city in OC that is on the verge of financial collapse and push their overtime buttons to make matters worse for them. Oh, well maybe out of the kindness of their hearts, these protesters that are doing things "for the greater good of the people" will show up with checks in hand to pay for the extra staffing.

  • Interesting that the protestors are targeting two cities run by Democrats - Irvine and Santa Ana.

• by the way Mr admin-
  why havent you posted the article in the oc watchdog that goes completely against your reasoning for the world as we know it collapsing? Even the public haters club of the oc watchdog posted the article:

  http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2011/10/15/public-workers-not-to-blame-for-fiscal-collapse-study-says/111793/

  I am sure you will still blame them. hate and jealousy is in your blood and it won't change till you change your views on life and everyone around you.

  • I missed that article. Thanks for the link. I just read it. Here is my favorite part:

    "The generous benefits that governments have promised to pay their workers for decades to come certainly adds complications to the dismal fiscal picture. That everyone seems to agree on this is evidenced by the willingness of unions to accept lower benefits for new new hires in the future, and a willingness of more workers to pay more money into their pensions."

    Santa Ana owes twenty five million a year in pension benefits. Largely for cops and firemen who retired early with six figure annual pensions. That is simply unsustainable.

• It's sophomoric to slam one form of protest by calling them tea-baggers.. they are tea-partyers. Let's come out of Jr. High School and have discourse.

  Further, do you really think the city is going to allow full-on camping? The homeless are cited all the time; and, often arrested.

  Finally, civic disobedience has been around forever, and means that those protesting are willing to go to jail to make themselves heard. Make yourself heard. Go to jail. It's how the Vietnam protesters and civil rights movements became real. Are you ready; are you really ready? Great; then go for it! (And, take the consequences)

• come on mr admin, you can't get off your horse can you? face the facts and stop taking out what you want for your attempt in sake of argument. The whole truth shall show you the light. How do you think cults and and fantasy are created? By people who take out the pieces of the whole truth they like and benefit them and turn it into their life and belief style. The system isnt perfect, everyone can agree to that. SAPD and SAFD "Associations" (they aren't "Unions" like you always say, there is a big difference) have been trying to negotiate concessions for months and Walters has been pulling their chain.
  You know, it doesn't matter, you won't believe it anyways. Your life preys on SA employees being horrible people. Hopefully you treat your friends and family with a more open mind

  • Not true. I have several friends who work for the city.

    My beef is mostly with the cops and firemen, which most certainly are unionized. They have been riding high on the hog for too long.

    That said, I am all for outsourcing if it will save us money.

• What union do they belong to? What union tells them who to vote for? What union tells them who and what to support? What union is there for them during negotiations? What union do they send monthly or yearly dues to? What union dictates anything for the police and fire departments for the city of santa ana?
  I have looked and looked and I can't find anything. I have asked any and all of them that i know and they all say they have zero representation from a union and they represent themselves and make their own decisions for themselves.
  The SEIU lists they are for all employees except the cops and firemen. police = police officers assocition. firemen = firemens belevewhatever association.

  Do they make alot of money, ah, yeah. Have they made concessions. all articles i have read say they have for the last 3 years. are they willing to make further concessions, they, including the city people say they are. multiple articles even state that the cops and firemen have made concessions for the last 3 years while the SEIU employees haven't, thats why they laid off all those people. Sounds pretty BS to me, you tango mio. shows the firemen haven't taken a raise in over 3 years while everyone else including management have taken multiple during those times, including this past july. what am i missing? no unions for your bad guys and multiple years of willing concessions.

  • You like to quote the Register, well here is a quote that disproves your points and talks about the SAPD and SA Fire unions:

    But here are a few ways the city could save:

    Contracts with the city’s police and fire unions dictate that when an employee takes a day off, it’s counted as time worked for purposes of calculating overtime for that pay period. This practice is not in keeping with the Fair Labor Standards Act, under which only time worked is considered in determining overtime. Switching to the FLSA method could save the city a few million dollars.
    CalPERS suggests that public safety employees contribute 9 percent of their pay toward their pensions. Under their union contracts with the city, police and firefighters actually contribute between 0.9 percent and 2.4 percent. Raising the employee contributions to the CalPERS-suggested levels could save the city several million dollars.
    The city’s contract with its firefighters union requires that a minimum of 63 firefighters be on duty at all times. This ensures a quick response to fires, accidents and medical emergencies throughout the city. However, it also contributes to payroll costs, as the city must pay overtime to a substitute every time a firefighter calls in sick or takes a holiday. The city could save if it negotiated the right to set staffing levels based on anticipated calls for service at different times of the day and night.

    Officials with the city’s main police and fire unions, the Santa Ana Police Officers Association and the Santa Ana Firemen’s Benevolent Association, note that they’ve made concessions, including deferring scheduled pay raises, in the past few years as the city has struggled to balance its budget (which it did by depleting its reserves). Police did get a 3 percent raise this year.

    http://santaana.ocregister.com/2011/09/16/police-and-fire-pay-to-come-under-scrutiny/

• So basically what you do time and time again is raise an issue (that doesn't have much bases because you don't know the truth, you read it somewhere) and then don't like to answer questions or prove what you said to be true. Or you just won't admit you are wrong so you change the subject or wow miss quote someone. Thats a novel concept.

  I will list my questions for you, maybe it will be easier to follow and not loose track and go off the subject on another tangent:
  1) where did i say i like to quote the register?
  2) what is the name of the firemen and cops "Union" they belong to?
  3) have the cops and firemen concessions been within the requests of city management each of the passed years? Walters and council have all been quoted about concessions of the past and no one has said both parties werent happy at the time.
  4) are the cops and firemen working toward more concessions this year to do their share?

  first, take a deep breathe and relax. You are your own enemy and your words here create more. There is no reason to get emotional and all upset and start throwing out bombs towards other people.

  • Did you know that the budget consultant hired by the City of Santa Ana named the unions the city deals with, in their report? Here is the list:

    Negotiated Compensation Increases Taking Effect in FY 2011/12 and FY 2012/13

    Bargaining Unit FY 2011/12 FY 2012/13

    Confidential Association of the City of Santa Ana (CASA) 2.50% 2.00%
    Executive Management (Sworn and Non-Sworn) 3.00% 0.00%
    Fire Benevolent Association (FBA) Non-Sworn 2.50% 4.00%
    Fire Benevolent Association (FBA) Sworn 2.50% 4.00%
    Fire Management Association (FMA) Non-Sworn 3.00% 3.50%
    Fire Management Association (FMA) Sworn 3.00% 3.50%
    Police Management Association (PMA) Non-Sworn 3.00% 3.50%
    Police Management Association (PMA) Sworn 3.00% 3.50%
    Police Officers Association (POA) Non-Sworn 3.00% 3.50%
    Police Officers Association (POA) Sworn 3.00% 3.50%
    Santa Ana Management Association (SAMA) 3.00% 3.50%
    Service Employees International Union (SEIU) 0.00% 0.00

    You can read the report here: http://www.ci.santa-ana.ca.us/documents/20110919_management_partners_report.pdf.

    So yes, obviously the cops and firemen are members of unions, your BS notwithstanding.

    You will see in the consultant's report that the cops and firemen are not paying their fair share of PERS fees. The Register noted that as well.

    And did you know that Governor Brown just signed a bill making it almost impossible for cities to file for bankruptcy? That means we are stuck negotiating with the very unions that have driven our city to a thirty million dollar annual deficit.

    It is clear that our cops and firemen are their own worst enemies. Their greed has resulted in hiring freezes in their departments - and they may yet get outsourced. Spending 25 million a year on the retirement funds of cops and firemen who retire at 55 with six figure pensions is unsustainable.

• I guess I shouldn't be surprised, you didn't even answer one question and you ran off into one of your 9 year childish rants. If you have kids, I truely hope that you treat them and teach them to have constructive talks and conversations.
  I can see it now:
  You: son, do you know what you did was wrong?
  Son: yes dad, I think i have a problem i would like your help to fix.
  You: son, do you know what you did was wrong? you have really made me mad?
  Son: i said yes dad, i am sorry. i asked for your help with this.
  You: son, do you know what you did was wrong? you really disappointed me and i am getting tired of all the mistakes you make.
  Son: dad, i said i was sorry and now i am asking for your help before things get worse. i have tried in the past and i can't do it alone, i need your help.
  You: son, do you know what you did was wrong? i don't care what you are trying to do, really need to understand that i won't put up with this anymore.

  Do you get me, you don't listen! If you don't listen, you dont care. if you don't care, you are selfish. if you are any or all the above, you need help. find someone who will listen, care and is selfless. maybe then you can learn how to be content and report facts, not a selfish, bias, screw everyone else opinion because they have something I don't have. you are filled with hate and disrespect and you demonstrate it time and time again. "You REAP what you SOW" and "Do unto others" are some pretty decent things to live by. try it, it makes life great.

  • Report facts? Well, that is precisely what I did - I cited a study that refuted your lame allegation that the Santa Ana cops and firemen aren't unionized. And you responded with a truly lame diatribe. I am sure my readers will have a good laugh at your expense.

    What we're not laughing about is spending 25 million a year on six figure pensions for cops and firemen who retire at 55 and live for an average of 82 years, at public expense.

• Just like YOU copied and pasted above, the cops and firefighters are part of an "Association" not "Union". Sorry, but did you not type them yourself because only one of them is a UNION. There is a big difference and you should learn it before you accuse someone else of not being in the know over and over again.

  Once again you didn't answer any questions and not only continue your negative approach, but now reverted to childish demeaning.

  allow me to add another couple of question (which I am sure you wont answer):
  1) How old are you, 5?
  2) Do you think you are a true professional with your negative approach?
  3) Are you proud to live your life this way?
  4) What are your intentions and hope to accomplish with this type of approach and way of life?
  5) Do you believe everything you read or hear?