Teachers react to placement of 6 SAUSD schools on low performing list

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• I completely agree that the fundamental schools bring about "brain drain" in the regular schools. Unfortunately, the waiting lists at the fundamental schools could fill another school at the intermediate level and many of the waiting list students will end up in private schools or schools outside the district. The only ones left to attend regular schools are those whose parents didn't sign up for the lottery at a fundamental school and those on the waiting list who do not have the means (money, education, transportation) to get their kids transferred out of district or into a private school. I'm not sure who wants to deal with this but I agree that it is a big problem. Maybe there should now be some talk of a fundamental high school in the north of the city. At least with more fundamental schools the district stands a chance at keeping the brightest students. It would be a big start for Santa Ana to actually not lose their more prepared kids to other districts. It might also help to look at how fundamental schools operate and find ways to implement their procedures at the regular schools. Unfortunately, that would require the district to start supporting teachers and disciplining students (as well as parents). A teacher can only do so much when there are no school-wide consequences for not doing homework. Parent contracts, student contracts and some actual consequences might make a difference.

• SAteacher:

  I don't mean that teachers aren't talking about it. Perhaps I should clarify. What I mean is that the District office and the State of California are not looking at how the fundamental schools affect the rest of our schools. If they did, they wouldn't be coming down on those 6 schools now.

  Is the State aware of this problem? The higher ups couldn't care less. This has been a problem in this district for years and it has gotten worse with the opening of more intermediate and high school fundamental schools. When Thorpe School opened up, elementary schools like Edison lost many high scoring and GATE students. But NCLB and the State doesn't look at these factors.

  I have not been to a school board meeting in a long time, so I am unaware if any school board members have brought up this problem. What school board members have brought up this issue? I would hope that they do.

• My children went to Santa Ana Fundamental Schools through Junior high. At the time there were no fundamental high schools and we were fortunate enough to get them into excellent out of district schools where they continued to excel. My children were joined by friends and classmates who they themselves made the decision to seek what they believed was a better education. I firmly believe that the study habits they learned at John Muir and later Ray Villa fundamental prepared them for the challenges of college.
  I do not blame the teachers because they do not choose who they teach. I do fault the unions that protect the few bad teachers that give you all a bad name. I don't blame the parents who do not have the time or education to help their children. But I do blame the parents who won't miss a Novela, but can't seem to make a parent night.
  And after all those years of late night homework, after school activities, PTA and fundraisers. I was not going to roll the dice and take a chance on my neighborhood high school (Century) just to help bring up that schools average. I wouldn't ask that of any parent or child.
  If you want to keep the best and the brightest. Challenge them and bring the parents along for the ride.

• Thanks to thinking out loud. This just illustrates the fact that parents who want a decent education for their kids search elsewhere if SAUSD can't provide what they are looking for. I guess the experience might have been different for you if there were a fundamental school available at the time your kids needed it. I take issue with the idea that the unions support bad teachers, the union is there to support teachers in general and I know of many cases in which the union did not support a teacher who was wrong, those are not the stories anyone hears about though. It is an issue that is used to divide people. The best point made is that the district and the school's job is to challenge students and not only bring parents along for the ride, but involve them in every step of their kid's education.

• I proudly support the fundamental schools in Santa Ana. As a parent of two children in fundamental schools, it is frustrating to constantly see the blame put on fundamental schools as contributing to the "brain drain" of Santa Ana. The fact is that the fundamentals also have high rates of english learners and students on free/reduced lunch as the other schools in Santa Ana because the lottery system allows a fair chance to all to get into the fundamentals. And yet these students rise to the challenge and are able to perform.

  The district and community needs to give credit to the fundamentals for actually doing what all of the schools in this district should be doing. Parents choose the fundamental schools particularly because there is ACCOUNTABILITY in these schools on the part of students, staff, and most importantly, PARENTS, that contribute to student success as well as consistent systems and high expectations in place to meet our children's needs. Fundamentals work because they are schools of choice and there is "teeth" so to speak on ways to enforce the rules at fundamentals. There are actually many students and parents that don't like the fundamentals because they are "too strict", have "too many rules", etc.

  I do take offense to the previous posters comment that "the fundamentals are the 8,000 pound gorilla in the room." On the contrary, the gorilla in the room is the fact that parents and students in our district need to take more pride and value in their education and that ALL students in this district need to be provided with curriculum and supports that set high expectations for ALL. Because we have so many students to "bring up" to proficiency in this district, what often ends up happening (even at the fundamentals) is that students that are proficient or advanced on state standards are being "left behind" to a certain extent. Often times they are excluded from receiving special tutoring programs and other extras because they are already "performing" where they need to be. Even parent education that is offered through this district caters to educating parents on "basics" such as how to check homework, etc, which I agree is a necessity and should be offered however, there is also a need to support us parents who are beyond that. It is frustrations such as this that drive the higher performing students and their families to look to other districts or private schools for a "better" education.

  In reality, there are many variables that contribute to why Santa Ana is a low performing district. And it is ridiculous to place the blame solely on one thing and even more ridiculous to assume that there are some of us parents that want a better choice for our kids. I've been a resident of Santa Ana for many years and I do choose to support my city because I also believe that there are good things going on in it and there are many great students at all schools in the district. But until our district decides that "high expectations for all students" needs to be the motto versus "failure is not an option" (which in my home is a given), the fundamental system will continue to be my choice.

• Poster "Fundamental Schools are NOT the Problem" is completely right. My child is a senior at a Fundamental High School and I know first hand that these successful students are from the same types of families all over the city. While parent involvement is very important, it is not everything. I know students at this school whose parents are not very involved, yet the students are motivated and succeed because of the atmosphere at the school--a good program, fine administrators, teachers who still love to teach because they have not been beaten down by lack of support or lack of discipline on campus. Kids at Fundamental schools know the rules, know the consequences--the key is that the schools actually enforce these rules. They are pushed, coached, helped to apply to college--and the expectation is that every one of them will go on to higher education.

  Blaming Fundamental High Schools for a brain drain is a red herring. Before these were built, families who could afford it were pulling their kids out of the distict to other districts or private schools. That's one of the reasons I fought against the year delay in opening the second Fundamental HS--we need more of these schools. These programs work not because the students are better or richer or more motivated, but because the progam is clear, disciplined, and fully supported by administration and teachers,including the enforcement of consequences.

  A conservative friend recently tried to sell me a line that Latino families "do not place the same importance on education" as other cultures. This is completely false (and racist) and I told him so. Any parent knows that good education=good/better job=success, whatever culture they come from. Parents in SA are far from stupid. The problem I see is one of economics--parents who are working 2 jobs, struggling with the language, have little education themselves. How many of them really know the Fundamental schools are accessible by all students? How many of them understand how to get into the lottery? And even if their children get in, there are the struggles with getting them to and from a school that may be well outside their neighborhood. Struggles with knowing what homework needs to be done and following up with their kids. Trying to attend parent conferences during work hours.

  I believe Century was supposed to be "transitioning" to a Fundamental program by grade level a few years ago (an effort I thought was futile). What happened to that? Schools need to fully transform to a new program. Yes, it will be chaos for the first 6 months, kids will be in detention, parents and teachers will be frustrated. But in the long run, SAUSD will benefit from programs that work.

  The School Board and the Superintendant have dragged their feet for too long. With the exception of John Palacios, the Board is perfectly happy to do nothing and dodge the criticism. We need to clean house at the top, get some leadership that will support the teachers so they can do what they do best--teach, not act as baby sitters and wardens.

• My kids attend both, fundamental schools and a neighborhood elementary school. I can see both sides of the fence; when the fundamental high schools opened up, not only did they drain the best students, they also drained the best teachers and administrators from other area high schools.

  But I also see quality teachers and administrators at the neighborhood elementary school making their best attempts to get their students to school on time, even going so far as to go to the students house to pick them up! No amount of conferences, meetings or warnings can change parents.

  When the fundamental schools have a “problem” student, they simply kick the kid out of their school, and that kid has to go to the neighborhood school. What consequences do the neighborhood schools have to work with? Can they kick a kid out for excessive tardiness, not choosing to do their homework or for behavioral issues?

  Obviously there are many different factors at play here, with no easy solutions. But putting blame on the fundamental schools is not the answer. We as parents only want what is best for our kids. This is a collaboration effort. Parents must be held just as accountable as teachers, administrators and the students themselves. As it stands, I don’t think teachers are speaking loudly enough. As a parent, I look for direction from teachers. They are only grumbling amongst each other. There is no real outrage yet from teachers or parents, as things keep piling up.

• I Believe In Santa Ana posts ...

  "When the fundamental schools have a “problem” student, they simply kick the kid out of their school, and that kid has to go to the neighborhood school. What consequences do the neighborhood schools have to work with? Can they kick a kid out for excessive tardiness, not choosing to do their homework or for behavioral issues?"

  Why does this school district have a 2-tiered system? Why does one have an advantage over the other? Public education is based on the concept that a quality education should be available to all students.

  Yes, this is and continues to be the elephant in the room.

• SAHS Teacher -

  There are more than 50,000 SAUSD students. How many attend Harvard, MIT, Stanford? And how many students do not graduate from an SAUSD high school? I bet the drop out rate far exceeds those who attend Ivy League schools.

  Get real.

• Anonymous, read my post carefully. You're not reading carefully. Those students at SAHS that sincerely try to succeed here get a first class education and go on to excel at top universities. Unfortunately, well over half of our students do not try and reject the opportunities offered them here. There are multiple reasons behind this lack of motivation going back years before they arrive here in the 9th grade. Also unfortunately, we are saddled with a school district administration that has little understanding of the nature of these problems, nor does it acknowlege the abilities of its teachers to help it find effective solutions.