Former Santa Ana Councilman Ted Moreno is defending the Fisher Park residents’ right to a messy creek
Former Santa Ana Councilman Ted Moreno has returned at long last from a self-imposed exile from local community affairs and politics. Moreno was drawn back into the fray by an article posted on this blog on Dec. 18, regarding the efforts by a handful of Santa Ana’s wealthier residents, in the Fisher Park neighborhood, to stop the Santiago Creek bike trail from being completed.
Moreno, was convicted of extortion and money-laundering in an alleged scheme to take control of the Santa Ana City Council and sentenced in February of 2001 to almost five years in prison, according to the L.A. Times. Many residents then and now felt that Moreno was entrapped and my old friend Lou Lopez, who was the first Latino elected to the Anaheim City Council, told me that the same FBI informant who entrapped Moreno, also tried to ensnare him. But Lopez, a retired police officer, ran the other way, while Moreno got caught.
Moreno also took a lot of heat back then for apparently believing that gays and lesbians would be attracted to Santa Ana’s newly established arts district and thereby bring about the moral decline of the city, and that he “was just hoping to make Santa Ana a better place to live,” he is quoted as telling U.S. District Judge Gary Taylor (Source: AJC).
Moreno was also accused of by former Santa Ana Councilman Brett Franklin, of shoving him during a break in a Council meeting, back in March of 1998. He did not however face charges in that incident, according to the L.A. Times.
While Moreno was far from perfect, I admired him for standing up to Santa Ana City Manager Dave Ream – and for fighting for working families. I can’t support his beliefs about the gay community, but in a way he was prophetic as the gay element in Santa Ana has very quickly accrued considerable power in Downtown Santa Ana. We recently caught the new gay bar, the Velvet Lounge, apparently engaging in adult entertainment, which is not allowed by their C.U.P. (conditional use permit).
Here are Moreno’s comments regarding the proposed completion of the Santiago Creek bike trail:
Allow me to introduce myself. I am a former two term councilmember for the City of Santa Ana from 1992 – 2000. I feel confidant that I have a quite a bit of knowledge of how the Santa Ana government functions and its history. By the why, just in case you or your organization feels that I am an elitist too, you are far from the truth. I was blessed three years ago to buy a home on River Lane for me and my family of six. My address is 943 W. River Lane, just in case you feel that I am not providing full transparency of who I am and were I live.
Six months ago is when I became aware of an out town group wanting to turn the Santiago Creek, which is about 150 feet from my property, into a bike trail. My first thought was, “Not a smart idea”. Most of my first gut reactions tend to be correct decisions. The City of Santa Ana does not have the necessary funds or manpower to patrol or beautify the current Santiago Creek bed, which explains all of the over grown plants, graffiti, coyotes and homeless.
While City of Santa Ana staff has become experts in exploding the city’s population demographic needs, when it comes to securing millions in Federal, State, and County funds in order to set into motion gigantic pet projects like the Santiago Creek Bike Trail. It still does not address the issue, that the city still does not have the resources to maintain a safe and clean bike trail. One just has to go along the current Santa Ana River bike trail, in those areas which are located within the city’s bounders, as proof that the city does not have the resources to provide safe and clean bike trail. While it is might be true that a lot of the responsibility of maintaining the Santa Ana River Bed bike trail, might be the County of Orange. The City of Santa Ana can not ignore that they are equally responsible for the safety of the average person who uses Santa Ana River Bed bike trail, within its city boundaries.
I just know for a fact that the affliction that effect the current Santa Ana River Bed bike trail, the homeless and graffiti from both gangs and tagging groups, will flourish beyond control along the Santiago Creek, if the proposed bike trail is completed. Please do not tell me that the homeless are not a concern. While it is true most of the homeless along the Santa Ana River Bed are harmless individuals, some of them are not. I know this for a fact, because before we bought our on River Lane, my family and I rented a home for 33 months on Alona St, which backed up into the 16th tee of the Riverview Golf Course. We could hear physical fights between the homeless at night, yelling at the top of their lung as if they were demon possessed, and three times the fire department responded to out of control fire in the river bed, which were started by the homeless.
I last last issue, please do be a big favor, do not call my neighbors like Ronald Salem an elitist, just because they might have a photo on their Facebook page have a great time with his family on a boat. The bottom line is that many of us in the neighborhood are concerned about our families and properties if this bike trail is constructed. This explains why Fisher Park Neighborhood Association, which had been inactive for about seven years, had standing room only at the Fisher Park Cabin about three months ago. There were over fifty residences from our association that were only concerned about this issue and none of them where in favor of the bike trail. Thank you for waking a sleeping giant.
Sincerely,
Ted Moreno
Will Moreno’s entry into this debate help the anti-bike trail contingency? That is hard to say, but I can’t imagine he will be able to sway anyone on our City Council. Stay tuned…
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kenlaysnotdead says: "We have no sidewalks in the neighborhood!"
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A portion of Sharon Rd and River Ln does not have a sidewalk. The rest does.
The portion of River Ln without a sidewalk would benefit from an extended trail along the creek, but that area is out, because the bike trail already exists on Memory Ln for that portion.
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anonster says: I’ve lived on this creek for over twenty years and this is the first I’ve heard about it,
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People who buy property are required to get “Notice” of all known items that effect the property.
The home buyers along the creek have been told about the flood control channel, the danger and requirement to have flood insurance, and the possibility of a parkway and trails being built along this channel when the ACE rebuilds it.
………..
Hi Folks,
2 of us went door to door along the creek homes in Jack Fisher to discuss this with neighboors last summer. For those that were home, quite a few were supportive on the condition that the creek be cleaned up of all the trash and graffitti. Some were also against it.
We also have been at some of the local Neighborhood Association Mtgs to speak about this.
Back in 1971 the County developed a master plan to place a trail along the Santiago Creek. Which showed a continuous trail. Years later Santa Ana backed out of the plan but Orange did not. Since then groups of community minded citizens have been succesful to have Santa Ana update the plan to include a trail on portions of the creek (i.e. Santiago Park) or parallel to it (i.e. Memory Lane). The Santiago Oaks Greenway Alliance is a group of citizens that has been instrumental in working with the communities, city govt, and county govt to create a greenway along this creek for all OC residents to enjoy. This is the last remaining gap of 0.25 miles.
Mark- Since you seem to be knowledgable and involved in this, a couple of things which hopefully you can specifically address:
1. How is building the paved trail going to save trees as you indicated?
2. Is the building of the paved trail required in order to clean up the creek of the trash and graffitti? You indicate that quite a few of the homeowners were in favor, which I am surprised that all of them were not in favor of a clean creek area. I fail to see why the graffitti and trash cannot be cleaned up without a paved trail...a bucket of paint and trash bags seem to work. If that is one of the goals, then it seems that this can be met without the paved trail.
3. Is there a specific plan available on-line that you can point me to so that I can read it for myself and verify some of these details?
4. Does the plan call for a ft wide paved plan plus 15 ft of clearance as Anonster claims? If not, what does the plan require.
Thanks in advance for your response.
cook,
The Army Corp of Engineers plan is for FLOOD CONTROL and yes, they did include a bike trail in their plan, but that is very different from this group.
I notice Mark Lindsey says they went to Fisher Park homes but what about Floral Park? Aren't those residents going to be affected too?
Even tho there is not a plan on the books, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where this part of the trail is going to be placed. The current trail stops under the freeway and the Memory Lane portion is going to be stripped down Flower to Fisher Park.
The communities affected has a chance to shine, on this issue. At the council meeting they said they will come up with a plan.
How would you connect the trail between the freeway and Memory Lane @ Flower?
Anonster, some creek Residents in Floral Park were also canvassed door to door like those in Fisher Park. They also were of mixed positions (negative or positive). We also met with City, County, and State Officials and with Neighborhood Associations. This was type of collaboration was also done with all the other segments of the creek that now has trails.
TjlocalSA,
1. Placing a trail would require removing fallen braches, overgrown bushes, and some trees. This is more about improving the health and safety of the lives of those who live in these neigborhoods and the county. Take a look at the restored sections of the creek and you will see. Not to far different than landscaping your yard if none of your own trees or bushes or grass has been maintained for 40 plus years. A few segments still need to be restored but those are ones that never had any trees (we have a vision to add more native plants in sections).
2. As a goodwill gesture, we initially explored cleaning up the creek by discussing this with the City and some of the Homeowners. We were going to use groups of volunteers such as local Boy Scouts as a community service project (Myself in others are in Scouts). Unfortunately, those against us had their Lawyer contact to Boy Scout Council and informed them that the Scouts and no other groups were welcome in the creek to clean or maintain this. The Scout Council requested we do not perform any projects in this creek since it may upset neighbors even if we had City permission to clean the City owned portion.
Thus, neither the Homeowners are willing to clean this up nor allow volunteer groups (I wonder why) I think that when a trail is placed here, we and the city will be able to get this cleaned up but not before.
3. For the vision and plan, go to http://santiagogreenway.org/html/vision.html
4. A standard Class 1 Trail design is 10ft wide. It does not require an additional 15 ft wide clearance. It also does not need to absolutely be 10ft wide. Throughout the county there are portions of other paved trails that are not 10 ft wide due to constraints. If a trail gets designed and constructed, there would be lots of collaboration to ensure it is environmentally friendly while also being safe. Allowing the status quo to continue (an unofficial dangerous trail in an unmaintained portion of the creek that serves as a link between 5 neighboorhoods in Santa Ana is no longer viable since rest of the creek upstream now has a great trail for 8+ miles).
I hope this helps. Lets pull together and create a better community for everyone to enjoy. We need people to be physically active and to be connected to one another for spiritual/mental well being. A Trail fosters this.
Mark Lindsey again is slanting the truth;
1) "placing a trail" nice euphemism for the need to take chainsaws and bulldozers into the creek bed. I challenge everyone to walk the path and to envision the 10ft wide paved strip with an additional 2.5 ft on either side (for a total of 15ft clearance) and all the grading that will be needed to ensure a safe trail and you will easily see that 90% of all the trees will have to be CUT DOWN. The native plants ML is talking about are little shrubs NOT NATIVE to a creek bed, the big cottonwood trees are.
Furthermore this bike trail will be right up against peoples backyards, there will be no room for "plantings", think BARREN and CHAIN LINK fence, that will be the "new" look for the creek bed just like it IS already near Tustin Blvd.
2) The city doesn't have the funds NOW to maintain the creek bed, they NEVER come and take care of the trees that are there. Some years ago the city came and poisoned the Aranda (bamboo) that was in the creek, they then cut it down and piled it up and left it there for MONTHS, I called every week for them to remove it, it only took them 4-5 moths to do so.
As far as clean-up, the homeowners who own into the creek can't give permission for volunteers to clean up the creek, their LIABILITY would be enormous.
You obviously don't know how the creek works, when it rains the creek flows and carries all the debris from upstream down with it, when it dries all that debris gets redeposited in the creek. You can clean it up one week and have it full of trash again the next, I know as I often take a trash bag and fill it up. The trash is always ongoing, this is NOT a failure of maintenance but a fact of our modern life.
3)The 10ft wide trail is ALSO supposed to have 2.5 ft of clearance on either side, hence 15 FEET in TOTAL, funny how ML always feigns ignorance and fails to explain fully the details. That's because the "details" have ugly consequences.
Thank you both (ML and Anonster) for the responses...obviously from 2 different sides of the creek.
1. Path- Seems to me like the creek would have a problem supporting a 10 ft +/- paved path in its current condition without substantial disruption to plantlife. The question I guess has to come down to whether it is worth it for the people to disrupt it. Obviously, sometimes leaving nature unmaintained is the best for nature, but not for people.
2. Clean Up- I think it is great that a group wanted to clean it up although if it is private property, the owners have to buy in also. If it is public property, the city should not have a problem doing it. If funds are a problem, how is it going to be able to put up the path and maintain it which I imagine is million(s) up front and some on going maintenance also.
3. The Plan- ML, unfortunately that link is to the Alliance's website but not to the actual plan. That would be like someone else putting the other side's site up for their ideas. I would like to be able to read the actual proposal which presumably would give details to the width and placement of the path, cost, maintenance, goals, private vs public property, etc...It seems that since no one can show it, maybe it does not exists and that is what the process we are in.
4. Enviro Impact- Does an environmental impact study have to be completed? Seems like it should...
TJLocalSA,
There is one more issue these folks aren't addressing and that is the creek itself. As I've said, I live on the creek, I've seen how high the water can get, this bike path will need to be put up higher than the existing foot path as the water comes up right next to and sometimes above the foot path.
This is the main difference between the existing bike trail area and this portion of the creek between Main and Flower, this part is very narrow and sloped, the water comes through very fast and it gets quite high. This is a CREEK and FLOOD CHANNEL, it IS DANGEROUS when the water is flowing as there is not much space on the North side and NONE on the south side.
Regardless of who owns the creek bed, I think they will in all practicality be forced to put this trail up as high as possible and because of the 45 degree slope this project will require a lot of grading and tree removal. In fact, that is in all probability the REAL reason this portion has not been done, because it's not feasible without real disruption for those folks living on Park Lane and their backyards.
Hi Anonster and TJLocalSA,
This is not rocket science. The County has many, many miles of trails on many creeks and rivers. The more recent ones constructed in the last 10 years have been more environmentally friendly. The greatest fear is fear itself.
Lets move forward as a community and be involved in the planning of creating a trail that is a win-win for all parties. To do nothing and keep it in its current state is a loss for the vast majority that live along and near this creek.
It does not make sense to have an exception for a 0.25 mile stretch that results in a 2+ mile detour on busy surface streets with Fwy Offramps that will either keep our communities divided and/or result in pedestrians and bikers being in accidents with motorists.